Sue Wagner - Excerpts 7 & 8 Transcript
(Reno, Nevada; August 15, 2001)

SW: You know, having Jean as an example of how to handle yourself and be perceived, I think, regardless of what I previously said, I think, in my mind, she did everything right. (SWagner7) She understood the process, she wanted to change the process to make it better, there's nothing wrong with that, but people somehow don't want change because it may upset the power base, it may change the relationships of people, and that's what they covet and seek, and I think that Jean looked at the legislature pro - legislative process more as an egalitarian, that everybody was equal, and they were, every vote counted the same, whether you were president or - of the Assembly or Speaker of the Assembly or Chairman of Ways and Means. You may be able to do more things in a committee, clearly, but some of the things that she - she wanted to do are now in place, but they were things that threatened people, but they were right, and I have to give Jean a tremendous amount of credit, of always doing what in her mind she thought was right, and she never, and I believe never, turned anybody around. If she said she supported it, she supported it, (SWagner7) and that is the kind of person you want to be and emulate, and certainly she was that for me. Not only were we friends in a personal way, because we were two women who felt very much the same way on major issues, but we just had a lot in common, but forgetting the Republican business, that really was not what drew us together, but it was more issues. (SWagner8) Jean was a very issue-oriented person and a reformer in many ways, not only the process but she just felt strongly about making things more accessible, having more people involved in making decisions, and of course that does threaten the current structure, when maybe one or two made most of the decisions, so she certainly was an example for me, and in many ways a mentor, as someone to look up to, to operate in the same way, because those qualities I found to be just terribly important and stood you in good stead the number of years that you were there. No one would say, "Well, you know, we can't count on Jean because she may change her mind at the last moment," that would never have been said, and that's very important in the process, that people know that you stand for something and also you're going to be that way on the day of the vote.(SWagner8) I've often - I really believe that, and I think I've proved it and I'm sure Jean did, as well, that you can vote for something and support something that people may not like at all, that really they're passionately opposed to, but if you stand up and you tell people that's where you are and you're not going to change your mind, they will - they will put that aside and they'll move on and look at other things you may do. I don't understand why politicians today keep thinking they've got to change their mind or gosh, what are those people going to think? People, I think, appreciate someone who has principles, who stand up, be counted, they know they're not going to vote the way I want them to, but by gosh, we know where they are, we know where they're coming from, and I think the average person really appreciates that. In fact, on the - we had an advisory vote on the ERA at one time, and Jim Gibson, Senator Jim Gibson, who was Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee at the time and also Majority Leader, he and I had lunch one day, probably the only day, but Jim told me that he and I probably were the only two people in the Legislature at the time who would vote the same way after the vote of the people. He would vote against it and I would vote for it, regardless of what the vote - how it was, that we were - believed passionately in our positions, and that is absolutely true, and I think if Jean had been involved at that time, we would've said that about her, as well, and I think that is so important, and Jean also demonstrated that to me, as well. I mean, she - to me, she - if you had to sit next to somebody, she was the person. She didn't hover over me and, you know, give me tons of information. In fact, she didn't do that, but if I needed it, I asked her and, you know, I think she probably felt, "Here's a woman that's," you well. I mean, she - to me, she - if you had to sit next to somebody, she was the person. She didn't hover over me and, you know, give me tons of information. In fact, she didn't do that, but if I needed it, I asked her and, you know, I think she probably felt, "Here's a woman that's," you know, "pretty principled herself, so I'm not going to," you know, "treat her as if she doesn'tknow anything," and so it was - it was a great relationship, and I think the trio, including Mary in this, was, to some, threatening, to us, a matter of survival, to be honest with you. We had to have somebody else that we could talk to, unload on, vent with, and we did that a lot in the seventies, because it was kind of a groundbreaking time.